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also check this article
on more insight on the Vincent-Indian connection
as written by Phil Irving....Greg
Somebody isn't telling
the truth. Certainly, the authors of the huge "On Two Wheels" series
weren't when they said Vincent had experimented with an Indian engine in a
Vincent frame in 1951. Phil Vincent himself got it wrong at least twice
when he claimed the Rapide engine fitted cleanly into the Indian Chief
frame. Phil Irving, who actually performed the transplant, is guilty of
deceit by omission -- he knew what was going on but either didn't tell
anyone or simply forgot. Indian and Vincent aren't two names you
automatically put together. Harley and Indian, yes. HRD and Vincent, yes.
Indian and Vincent? Where’s the link between the famous but tragic
American manufacturer and arguably the best British bike builder of all
time?
Some of what follows fits into the "what if..." school of motorcycle
history. Basically, what happened was that Indian threw its development
work in the '40s into small capacity twins and singles and neglected its
big V-twins on the basis that there was no future in them. How's this
quote from Roy Harper's 1975 book on the Vincent-HRD story: "Mr Rogers
(president of the Indian Moto Cycle Company) who was a considerable
'go-getter' was convinced that the old style of American motor-cycle with
big V-twin engines and heavy weight was doomed to play an ever decreasing
role in the American motorcycle scene."
As
Rod Stewart once said, look how wrong you can be. Rather than develop a
new V-twin to replace the ageing, side-valve engine in the Indian Chief,
Rogers expressed an interest in the possibility of fitting the then (and
now) highly acclaimed, 61 cubic inch Vincent Rapide engine in the existing
frame. This would give him a competitor for the more advance
Harley-Davidsons and allow the Chief to continue as the status leader of
the company's model line-up. It would also cost a fraction of the price of
developing a new engine from scratch. Rogers shipped a 1948 Chief (without
engine) to the Vincent works in Stevenage (UK) and the legendary Phil
Irving was put on the case.
It was Phil
Vincent's view that by lowering the standard Rapide top gear below its
existing 3.5:1 and increasing the compression ratio to around 8:1, the
Rapide engine would be able to shift the enormous weight of the standard
Chief with considerably more speed than it was accustomed to. The stock
Indian V-Twin was good for around 85 mph (a speed which decreased as the
engine heated up) and weighed around 580lbs. Vincent predicted a weight
for the "Vindian" of around 500lbs and a top speed of around 110 mph. If
the name Phil Irving isn't familiar to you, it should be. Along with the
Vincent V-twin engine, Irving was responsible for hundreds of other
outstanding engineering feats, including the Repco V8 engine with which
Jack Brabham won his F1 world championships. Heavy Duty's recently
acquired columnist, the Wizard speaks of an Irving-designed, crankless
engine which pumped gas to the eastern suburbs of Sydney and ran
continuously for over 60 years. As you might expect, Irving was a realist
and didn't share Phil Vincent's optimism. He described riding the standard
Chief as "making one feel rather like a yachtsman at the helm of the Queen
Elizabeth".
Concerns about plonking a performance engine in the stock frame would have
included misgivings about aerodynamics, too. The fender valences on the
standard bike caught wind and created stability problems at low speeds.
How would they manage 180 kmh? The Irving-built Vindian, complete with
giant tyres and mudguards, was tested successfully at over 170 kmh before
it was sent to Indian's Springfield plant in the US. At Indian's request,
Vincent also played with an Indianised version of the standard Black
Shadow, but that bike stayed at Stevenage and eventually found its way to
Australia when Phil Irving finally came back to live here. According to
Phil Vincent, by using "great care", the Rapide engine could be slipped
into the Chief frame without fouling either frame or tank. Having actually
tried to do it, Phil Irving must have known this wasn't correct. Either he
didn't tell Vincent or Vincent chose to ignore it in the interests of
selling large numbers of Rapide engines in the US.
Nobody told Peter Arundel, either, which is why he was so surprised over
40 years later when he attempted to create another Vindian. Peter is a
Melbourne-based Indian collector. He found the appropriate '48 Chief frame
relatively easily, but it took three years to acquire a Rapide engine.
With substantial assistance from ex-BMW engineer, Lindsay Uquhart , Peter
attempted the marriage, only to make some interesting discoveries. The
engine doesn't fit. Peter had to raise the frame bar running beneath the
tank by four inches, necessitating gusset reinforcing around the steering
head area. Irving had removed the frame rear down tube, apparently from
necessity, but Peter found this wasn't necessary and used it for rear
engine mounting plates. Perhaps more surprising was the need to create a
substantial indent in the underside of the petrol tank to accommodate the
left-hand carburettor. The tank also had to be modified to allow for the
right-hand rocker box. These kinds of modifications would have provided a
powerful disincentive to Indian which, at the time, obviously felt its
production lines could have been put to better use. As it was, even
believing the Vincent engine to be a trouble-free fit, Indian didn't
proceed with the program. The reasons were business, rather than
engineering-based, but it was a near-sighted decision, nonetheless. No-one
now knows what happened to the original Vindian.
Phil Irving, who Peter had the opportunity to liaise with through their
common membership of the Vintage Motorcycle Club of Victoria, died in
1992, some years before Peter completed his Vindian. Phil would have been
interested in the result, and the technical problems Peter encountered may
have jogged Phil's memory, perhaps providing answers to some fascinating
questions. As with the original, Peter's bike features the Indian
rocker-lever gear change (one up, three down) and minute attention to
other details, including the exact blue colour of the Irving prototype.
The Arundel Vindian weighs in at 565lbs, raising more questions about the
Irving Vindian. How could it be so much lighter, or was it another Phil
Vincent-inspired guestimation to inspire the Americans? Fitted with
Vincent Mk II cams, the Arundel Vindian should be good for around 190 kmh.
Almost stock Rapides have been clocked at up to 240 kmh. Peter has seen
168 kmh on his and felt plenty more was available.
Now back to the "what
if..." scenario. What if Indian had shared Harley-Davidson's faith in the
future of big, American V-twins? What if Indian had progressed and refined
the Vindian theme? What if you could walk into a showroom in 1997 and
choose from a range of Indians, including full-dress tourers and lean,
hungry sportsters? What if bike shows and drag meets were bare-knuckle
punch-ups between two makes, instead of simply refined and revised
versions of the Harley theme? American capitalists are the first to tell
you that competition improves the breed. What if the bike in your garage
right now wasn't a Softail, but a 1300cc, fuel-injected Vindian capable of
showing a rear-tyre view to just about anything else on the road?
Whatever, there's one Indian in Australia currently capable of making new
Harley owners vomit inside their full-face helmets. If you see a late '40s
Chief on the road with an engine which seems to fit a little too snugly,
make sure you treat it with the respect it deserves!
Article courtesy of ‘Heavy Duty’ magazine.
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